Transcript

Brett Tabke: This is Brett Tabke. We are back here again today.Today we have got Detlev Johnson. So you go back a ways in the industry. It's always nice to meet some of the founders of search marketing, per se. In fact, we were just sitting here talking quite a bit about some of the old days, how they are looking a lot like the old days in some respects these days.

Detlev Johnson: That's true.

Brett Tabke: Talking about universal search and how Ask.com has been doing it for several years, somewhat related, and we both remarked how Alta Vista used to do similar with video and news.

Detlev Johnson: Absolutely.

Brett Tabke: So what do you make of all of this with universal search today?

Detlev Johnson: Well it is interesting to me, and uh certainly that Google is putting eyeballs into some of the other services that they power, so you know they have either got them through acquisition or developed them in-house, but ultimately they are just trying to drive traffic to some of the other services that might not get as much of the eyeballs as does web search, and so universal search certainly isn't something new as you know we were pontificating. It goes back many years. It is just there is a label for it and it is because its the most popular search engine now. Everyone is talking about it now, but surely it has been happening for years. It is the best way to provide an answer to a query, and Google's rather frugile approach to date has possibly gotten in the way of some of the other services, in the success of the other services. I bet you anything internally, they were, some of the people who were trying to advocate for the other services were complaining, and this was one way to drive them traffic, you know without even really trying, so.

Brett Tabke: Because Google up to this point, aside from the search engine, you got Gmail, which is fairly successful. You got Google Maps, which I personally think is still their best application to date, even better than the search engine itself. So clearly they are trying to knock the one hit wonder moniker off, anyway they can.

Detlev Johnson: Well, I mean the thing that is interesting is that search is the thing that they are most known for, and it is really what put them on the map. And so to speak, the map application. Definitely maps is an excellent application, and are they calling it Google local now, I forget? It is either local or it is maps.

Brett Tabke: I still go to maps.google.com

Detlev Johnson: It will always resolve there, you know that is true. So it is true that such an awesome application as they have got there, and really getting keyhole in puttin the satellite imagery over the top was an interesting, cool thing, which made it very, you know um, how do you say viral I guess they call it. You know because people are suddenly looking at satellite images of their roof tops, and uh...

Brett Tabke: Again, now they weren't the first ones to do it. Microsoft had their tera server online in 97.

Detlev Johnson: Right, but with Google being so popular and such a popular destination online, and so it is very easy for them to get eyeballs to these applications. Much like we were taking about.

Brett Tabke: And Google maps has such a beautiful interface, it is so easy to use. It is just intuitive.

Detlev Johnson: The dragging around application, which was probably one of the first you know dragging around applications, it got so popular.

Brett Tabke: Ajax

Detlev Johnson: Yeah, Ajax. I'll go ahead and say Ajax. Ajax.

Brett Tabke: As the French say.

Detlev Johnson: Yes, Ajax

Brett Tabke: Let's talk a little bit about what is going on with you these days. you were most recently. Well not most recently, your previous job was with PositionTech. Our good friend Jim Stob up at Chicago

Detlev Johnson: Yes

Brett Tabke: In fact, you are still based in Chicago.

Detlev Johnson: Chicago, that is right. Yeah, for many years worked at PositionTech, and still obviously love all the guys there. It's a great place to work, its one of the things that, as you know, one of the historically siginificant companies in search marketing, and so it is great to be part of all that. I do have SearchReturn now, and that is what I have been focusing on, and what I plan to really be out on my own. Just a little bit more independent, that is all.

Brett Tabke: So what all are you going to be doing on SearchReturn?

Detlev Johnson: Well, the thing started off sort of as a revival of what was iSearch. Remember iSearch?

Brett Tabke: Yeah, we had Marshall Simmonds in here, just uh

Detlev Johnson: Oh you did, okay. Well, did you guys talk iSearch?

Brett Tabke: You bet we did.

Detlev Johnson: Well there you have it.

Brett Tabke: Your name popped up in several interviews.

Detlev Johnson: Well fantastic.

Brett Tabke: You are going to have to watch them to see.

Detlev Johnson: Oh, I will. I'll tune in. And I do know that having um, having iSearch and how great it was. I haven't yet been able to pull it around and make it the same. I think with all the blogging and everything that is going on, iSearch, an iSearch type application, where its a moderated digest list, email list isn't something as quick, if you make a post, it is not going to appear on the site right away, like it would a forum, your on a forum, or any other thing, including the blogs. So I'll figure out what exactly to do with that list and make it really useful and something people want to get.

Brett Tabke: Okay, well good.

Detlev Johnson: As well, of course you know, all things search, so.

Brett Tabke: What is your take on paid inclusion these days, coming from PositionTech, obviously that is what they were known for? Which you helped manage all kinds of accounts and sites. What is yourcurrent take on it?

Detlev Johnson: Well I think that the traditional benefits that it always has had still are relevant today. Some of those things don't get as much air time as, you know what people would be like well, why pay, just get in for free, but what is true is what you get. You do get service. You get, you know the refresh rate, the refresh cycle is practically as fast as you can really handle it, anyway or would be reasonable. Um, so there is a number of things for which it would be perfect for sites. If you have content that you know should be represented in an engine in a timely fashion, and maybe pulled from an engine in a timely fashion. You know the inclusion services, including the feeds especially, this is the service you are going to want to deploy, so if you are an eBay type site, right, you have got things that come online and things that get pulled offline, you know. You are not going to want to just say well I'm just going to trust myself to the free crawl. You know, this is a paid crawl. So there are a lot of sites for which it is absolutely essential in a way for their marketing efforts, and there are a lot of sites that also don't have to pay and they get a lot of play by not paying at all, and getting great visibility without having to pay any click fees.

Brett Tabke: Excellent. One of the things we have been talking about with everybody is kind of the state of the health of the search marketing industry. We have heard some talk, some people think it has peaked, some people think it has just platued, the calm before the next storm. It's actually been rather interesting. it's been all over the map. We got some cheerleaders that say hey, it's only the beginning baby steps and we got some other people who say it is in the rocking chair. What is your take on it?

Detlev Johnson: If it is in the beginning steps. I'm tired already man. I've been doing this ten years right? This ain't the beginning. What's true is there is a lot of upside in search, and that is because, well frankly that is because people like <inaudible> have come into the search business, not all of them are really well prepared, like some of us older folks that have, well older generation folks in search have the experience that literally, uh essentially, you know there are a lot of things that we know that trump anybody knew who comes in and tries to be, yeah.

Brett Tabke: We have got a baseline of history to..

Detlev Johnson: And we also know that there is plenty of future simply because even people who have been familiar with search all along, you know, may or may not have been able to really, I'd say deploy the right things, and have gotten themselves in trouble, or have done it wrong, or haven't figured it out, or have you know, the classic example of BFA figured they'd followed one form posting advice and bought 10,000 different domains, and interlinked them all with a big network of links, then decided to 301 everything, and cross their fingers, knock on wood, you know, I mean, there are people still doing that because you can find that kind of advice online. So you see sorting through the mess, of what is true and what is not true, that is where the upside is, and certainly search isn't going away. It is going to be a part of the marketing mix moving forward no matter what, and it is outgrowing other online marketing practices by a faster clip, by a little bit of an extra percent, like online marketing overall, I think, last year has grown 20 percent, search has grown 25. 5 percent outgrowing all other online marketing, I mean, you know, don't quote me on that. I think that is about the right numbers, and so I know that search is still growing faster than the other medium, the other competencies, online marketing.

Brett Tabke: Alright, Detlev Johnson. We are out of time. I appreciate you taking the time to be with us. Thank you.

[edited by: Vanessa_Zamora at 3:32 pm (utc) on Jan. 29, 2009]